HELP!! You master Valkyrie mechanics....

[Valker]

My best friend has a 97 Valk since he borrowed my 98-the bug bit him hard ;-) Now for the problem. He has had it a couple of years, has 35,000 miles on it. He changed the oil (Shell RotellaT synthetic 5/40) recently. Just before the oil change (he has run Rotella before, but a couple changes ago) the clutch started dragging. I helped him bleed it with a MityVac. We bled it until nothing showed. No help. Rebled it until we had run a couple of quarts of new fluid through it. No change. Took it to the dealer this morning. On the way it started smoking-bluish out the exhaust. Not just a little, it looked like a clown car...horrible. Any ideas out there? This is causing a miss of Inzane. TIA :?: :?: :?: :(

[Bob E.]

Do you mean the clutch is slipping when the lever is released? Or do you mean that when you pull in the lever, the bike still pulls?

I'm no expert by any means, but it sounds like 2 unrelated problems. I don't see how a problem with the clutch would cause blue smoke out of the exhaust. :?

[Valker]

Do you mean the clutch is slipping when the lever is released? Or do you mean that when you pull in the lever, the bike still pulls?

I'm no expert by any means, but it sounds like 2 unrelated problems. I don't see how a problem with the clutch would cause blue smoke out of the exhaust. :?
I mean that when I pull in the lever, the bike still pulls.
Thanks so far....

[Hawk]

Well gee, you might have a few problems there. I am just guessing here, and I may be WAY off, but first some questions. Does the oil look at all contaminated? Without seeing it, I am really shooting in the dark . First I would look at the oil and if it is contaminated, figure out with what. Could be antifreeze (shouldn't but it could be), or I did know one guy who "bled" his clutch and blew the seal, causing the fluid to contaminate the oil, he was using a vac type bleeder. But I only know of that happening ONCE! and I am sure there is something he wasn't telling me he did.
Next you are going to have to take the clutch cover off and remove the clutch. IMPORTANT NOTE: if you are having the shop do it, tell them to leave their air tools on the bench while removing (and reinstalling) the clutch cover. Those bolts are NOT designed to take much torque, (most are anywhere from 6lbs to 25lbs) either way, TRUST ME ON THIS ONE!!! they can use a 1/4" ratchet for all those, besides it is too tight for much else on some of them. Once you have it all out Inspect it all, it could have got glazed then slipped enough to get hot and come apart. The fact that it was grabbing with the lever in means it should have grabbed good once you were moving, still that little bit could have caused them to glaze or broke something off the edge. If the oil looks clean, most likely it is somewhere in the "connection" between the slave cylinder and the lifter. One other thing, you might check. The blue smoke, since it was coming through the exhaust, it could be your scavenger pump might have got blocked off. This is really shooting in the dark here, but assuming something might have fallen out of the clutch, or the oil change "broke" something free, whatever, that "chunk" may have found its way into the strainer and blocked the rear scavenger pump. If that happens all your oil stays in the rear of the motor. At that point the blue smoke could be coming from it sucking it's way back through the breather system, or no oil in the front of the motor might cause other things to "smoke". Being synthetic, I am guessing the front end of the motor did NOT cause the smoke. Just my two cents worth, and that ain't much. It is late so I may not even be thinking right. :a13:

[Hawk]

Oh yeah one other thing, before TJ replies, I am NO master mechanic, :? just a dumb plumber. :a13: that worked a lab job :a13: :D
Right TJ :clap2:

[Hawk]

I just got to bed and had a weird thought, I thought RotellaT was designed for Deisels? I know they say it will work in gas also (I have a bottle of it on the shelf) but for some reason I am thinking that isn't a great one for bikes???? Can't remember why, maybe I am just having a brain fart :oops:
Also a quick way to check about that savenger pump, is check the tube on the top of the rear case, if it is very oily (I mean more than normal) it is a tell tale sign the oil is backing up. (been there, done that :cry: )

[Yogi]

I'm with Hawk on this one. Get rid of the rotella add Mobil1 RedCap (if you can still find it) if not add regular honda GN4 run that for about 250-500 miles drain and re-do. Rotella is a High mileage Diesel oil there are additives that help keep contamination down as well as some other stuff. Definately NOT recommended for bikes with Wet clutches. You say he ran it before in other bikes. I'd believe he made out ok on bikes with sumps and dry clutches.

[Bob E.]

Hmmmmm! I switched to Rotella T Synthetic based on the large number of recommendations on the VRCC board. Lots of people are using this oil. That's what is in my Valk now for the last 3000 miles (Mobil 1 Gold Cap before that, and Honda oil before that) and my Dad's Goldwing for the last 2000 miles with no problems...yet. He ran regular old Pennzoil for the 1st 18000 miles alot of that 2-up and towing a trailer with no clutch problems. I was told that as long as it doesn't have the "energy conserving" mark in the little circle, it was ok for wet clutches. Is this not true?? :?

Plus after re-reading Valker's original post, the clutch started dragging before the oil change. And the oil that was in it before the oil change was not Rotella (if I understand the post correctly). I don't think the clutch problem is oil related...unless he had an improper "energy conserving" oil in there before the Rotella.

[holmes]

I've been using the Rotella synthetic in my bikes for a good long time now. In fact I usually buy about 30 jugs or so at a time and then split them with Brett, Joe, etc. Bottom line: the Rotella is fine.

[Yogi]

Huh..... I stand corrected. I thought I remembered reading that this was a bad idea.

[Valker]

Thanks so much for the responses so far. Please keep those ideas coming. :D

[holmes]

Thanks so much for the responses so far. Please keep those ideas coming. :D

Sounds like it could be the damper place has come apart. It's an easy fix.

[Hawk]

Well I stand corrected too, I guess maybe the rotellaT is ok, but I think I will stick to my Mobil 1. I was like Yogi and could swore I read an article on that. :? Sounds to me though no matter what you are going to have to take the clutch cover off for inspection. You could take the slave cylinder off and make sure everything there is intact and working properly first, for the clutch grabbing. And check the breather tube for excess oil. If I remeber right that tube goes into a small "box" and then on into the air box right? If so you could check them for oil, if there is oil laying in your air box, I am still guessing the smoking was coming from a blocked scavenger pump, but if there is no oil there, I am not sure :roll:
Like I said before I may be way off, afterall I was wrong about the RotellaT. :oops:

[Valker]

Thanks so much for the responses so far. Please keep those ideas coming. :D

Sounds like it could be the damper place has come apart. It's an easy fix.
Sorry, but by 'easy fix' do you mean that replacing the clutch plates is fairly simple? If so-thanks! That really is reassuring. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I trust you guys. :!:

[holmes]

Changing the damper plate is easy and shouldn't take more than a couple hours including beer time. You are going to need an impact wrench to unstake the center nut from the mainshaft.

[LaMonster]

Changing the damper plate is easy and shouldn't take more than a couple hours including beer time. You are going to need an impact wrench to unstake the center nut from the mainshaft.

You're going to need a tool to compress the spring to take the ring clip out too. :roll: I made mine but it sounds like that may be a problem for him. Best to take it to the dealer if this is for a trip to Inzane. Now's not the time to learn how to change out a clutch. :roll:

[Valker]

You're going to need a tool to compress the spring to take the ring clip out too. :roll: I made mine but it sounds like that may be a problem for him. Best to take it to the dealer if this is for a trip to Inzane. Now's not the time to learn how to change out a clutch. :roll:
Thanks. I am not going to Inzane. Lamont, is changing out the clutch something that could be learned without taking the whole thing apart?
Do you think the oil smoking could be something simple? It is not overfilled. Thanks so much. :?:

[holmes]

You're going to need a tool to compress the spring to take the ring clip out too.

Yeah I forgot about that. I remember having to use a friends press until we made a small garage tool.

[Hawk]

Valker do you have shop manual? If you don't YOU NEED ONE! All this is very simple. You can do it without much hassle at all. The biggest problem I found was being able to get to everything because of the tight space. But it isn't that hard really.

[LaMonster]

You're going to need a tool to compress the spring to take the ring clip out too. :roll: I made mine but it sounds like that may be a problem for him. Best to take it to the dealer if this is for a trip to Inzane. Now's not the time to learn how to change out a clutch. :roll:
Thanks. I am not going to Inzane. Lamont, is changing out the clutch something that could be learned without taking the whole thing apart?
Do you think the oil smoking could be something simple? It is not overfilled. Thanks so much. :?:

I don't know where I read that. :roll:

I'm not saying you couldn't do it but from reading your post I think it may be a bad idea. I would still take it to a dealer if I was you and see what they say unless you have a lot of time and no money I think the frustration level would be worth the cost of the dealer looking at it first. Like Hawk said pick up a manual and read that first, that right there will most likely scare you out of doing it yourself.

[Hawk]

Keep us posted as to what you find out. You got me wondering now?

[Hawk]

Hey Valker what happened with the bike? What did you find out?

[Valker]

We'll look at his as soon as he gets back with mine. :D