Having serious thougt about giving up motorcycling. (long)

[Highlander]

Most of you who know me understand that riding is what I live for. Ok, this is a real problem for me. I have been pondering no more motorcycle since Saturday when the event leading up to these thoughts occurred.

I had taken Amanda, my new back set rider to Carbondale during my lunch break– 22 miles one way – knowing I had to hurry back to work. I was to meet her in Carbondale after I got off work and go see my friends play blues. On the way home, I was almost to DuQuoin, traveling 45-50 on the right hand speedometer, when four does ran out in front of me on the highway. The first deer was on the shoulder by the time I reached them, I hit the brakes to miss the second deer, swaerved left, dropped a gear and hammered the throttle to miss number three. The car behind me struck three and four.

Unruffled, I rode into work, clocked in, and basically forgot about it . . . until a guy in a white pick-up that was behind the red sports car that hit the deer came into the station where I work. He said: “I can’t believe you missed those deer. . . . I can’t believe you are not still shaking . . . My butt would still be puckered.” The strange part is it took me a while to understand what he was saying. I just passed it through my mind and out as if it was nothing. I have had several friends, many on ths board seriously injured fro encounters with animals, yet, it did not sink in how dangerous the situation had been. This is very dangerous.

I have been so fortunate in the past that I do not seem to care about the risk any more. Why? It is why I think I probably should give up motorcycle riding. Sorry about the rant, but if anybody would understand what I am saying, I thought it would be on this board. I am serious for once. These thoughts scare me more than the deer.

[BG]

Been there and done that my friend.
Last year I saw 2 accidents and heard of another in one week.
2 of the accidents were fatal.
I asked myself "what in the world are you doing, it's only a matter of time until it's my turn".
Almost like playing russian roulette.
Every time I return home, I thank the Good Lord for a safe trip.
I seriously considered hanging up the keys for a while until this was out of my system.
It's something I still think about quite often but it's a hard decision to make.
Everyone has to do what is right for them.
Glad nothing happened to you and you're here to share your heart with us.

[BigJon]

Seems as though we are all figuring out we aren't bullet proof anymore!!!
Keep up the good thoughts and well take some time and think about it.
Slow down and smell the roses.

[Highlander]

My problem is, I do feel bullit proof. There is no fear. That is what makes me wonder. I gave those deer no more thought than if they were butterflys. The no fear part is what is beginning to worry me. The emotions are gone, and I just react, no feeling. Sort of defines my life right now.

[Mosa]

Highlander.... next stop: Lazy Daze Retirement Home....

they aint no way yer gonna stop riding... now, changing yer thought process, well, look at what U are doing now... questioning it.... thats the start...

Anyway, I understand what you are thinking, as it has crossed my mind too, but the other way... seein my friends wreck, hearing of REAL BAD wrecks, makes me think sometimes that my turn is next ( like BG said)... There are days where I get on the bike... head out the driveway, get halfway down the block or a coupla blocks away and 'sumpun aint right' and I turn around and park the bike and either forget about the trip or take the car...

U gotta deal with it Bill in yer own way... good luck man!

Mosa

[TNT]

You were able to handle the situation and avoid the deer, that's the important part..... you're a good rider! I've heard of people that hit deer in their car and were killed, so the risk is there, bike or not. My belief is that when God decides to call you to Heaven, it won't matter whether you are on a bike, in a car, or in your bed, you're going! Like Mosa said, you have to deal with it in your own mind, but I can't see someone like you give up riding!

[Daniel Meyer]

One of the defining characteristics of the human "animal" is that we truely do not beleive in our own mortality. We could not accomplish the things that we do otherwise.

"No fear" is actually a plus, in my mind. You can react, hopefully appropriately, without having your mind clouded by fear and having to fight your body's automatic reactions to the situations. I have seen cars sliding down the road that the driver had simply quit driving due to fear...in one case covering her face with both hands and trusting her fate to ... ? what ? ... luck? We make our own luck. That car still needed a driver.

Life is experience. You can't stop experiencing...all you can do is stop living.

Best of luck, no matter which way you go. It's for you to decide.

[REELAY]

I AGREE 110% with Vicki. I FIRMLY Beleive the day I was hatched into this world my Fate and Destiny was already determined. Sure We can do things in Life to change this Pre-determined Plan. But I beleive if we live life and put Our Priorities in the Proper Order, then the Plan is fullfilled.When GOD calls your name, NO MATTER what you are doing, thats the Path, you were to take. If I'm called on the way home today, tommorow, or when-ever, THATS the WAY It Was to Be....

Always Remember: He's Always On Time......He's Never Early....He's Never Late........Its, in His Time..........WE just have to be Ready......

Thoughts and PRAYERS to you Bro........Take some time off.....You will make the Right choice.....RIGHT for YOU.whatever that may be........

Ray

[holmes]

But I say...http://www.corporaterenewal.com/images/shut_up_and_ride.gif

[Hawk]

Bill you are (at some point) gonna have the same fear in a "cage". I understand the "no fear" scaring you, my good friend who helped teach me to ride told me, as a biker you have to think everything out there can take you out at any time, ride defensive. I think the part that is scaring you is YOU DID ride defensive by instinct, not by what we call "normal thought". Kind of like people who are taught to shoot instinctively, they train and train to shoot to kill so when that time happens(if unfortunately it ever does happen) they do what they have to do to survive without thinking about anything else. If that makes sense, I understand it scares you that it didn't scare you. Relax buddy, you did exactly what you were suppose to, you are fine and should be proud of yourself. Like everyone else said when it is our time.................. The alternative of never feeling the wind in your face, or the "G"s in a turn leaning.........well it is just part of the price we pay. Besides if you would have been in a cage you would have never been able to avoid the deer, and who knows one of them might have jumped in the cage with you. RIDE ON

[LaMonster]

No fear and no sence is a fine line. ;) What may freak some people out may not freak out others. I can jump off a 210' tower but I can't go very far back into my own cave, go figure. :roll: Best thing to do is to follow your heart, if you think you should get off of bikes now then do it, you'll know if it was the right thing to do soon enough. I was off of bikes for 13 years before I got back on. The time was right for me to get off when I did and the time was right for me to get back on when I did.

[HAWK88]

HighLander;

Separately and collectively, there's some sage advice and feelings in this thread. I went from crotch rockets to a Boss for some of the same reasons your considering giving up scoots. As an EMS pilot, I knew where the (few here in Fl.) "good" roads were, and found myself "testing" them way too often, usually after we'd flown a particularly nasty flight, especially involving kids.

Like Lamont, I had given myself a several year sabbatical from scoots, but had to come back for the reasons we all ride. As a biker, Cobra and Apache Pilot in the Military, and Eurocopter Pilot as a civilian, I enjoyed maintaining those same skill sets that kept you from whacking those deer, and feed off those skills.

Frequently, after a near miss, I've had chills, sometimes within a few minutes, and some times a couple days later. The skill sets we hone, and "oneness" with whatever machine one develops is an important part (IMHO) to surviving near fatals, however, I also believe and feel what Vicky and others said applies as well. When it's my turn, I just hope it's not some embarrassing BS like choking on a Arthritis pill.

I prebriefed all our local EMS (Stuart to Daytona), only half jokingly, When they find a crumpled up Olde Fart laying near a screaming Boss, Kill Switch first, then airway. Save the engine for someone else, it's a Good'en!"

Ride!
HAWK88
Jack Phillips

[Highlander]

I am lucky that I have two very understanding families to help me through things -- the BBR and VRCC. It was never a question of "I almost died." It is about the fact that I no longer think about how dangerous some situations are. I just do what I do and take things as they fall. I always joke about the fact that my boss is the only one who will miss me if I should die because she has to find someone to work those stupid shifts. :D Your comments have been a great assist in sorting things out. I do appreciate you guys and gals. So much good thought went into your responses, and they have helped a great deal. Holmes, I am shutting up, and going for a ride. BG, Big Jon, Mosa, TNT, Daniel, Reelay, Hawk and LaMonster, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. So are there any dates for Maggie Valley next year?? :D

[Crazy Al]

Read (or reread) Castaneda.
And, in the meantime............

Ride fast and take chances

[Valkcabbie]

Aw cut the crap Bill. If you couldn't get it up would you stop TRYING? Hell no, you'd just up the dose of Viagra. So the solution is to ride faster except around sunup and sundown when the Deer are munching cigarette butts at the roadside. Sheesh! See you at the Boss Hoss Dealer in Daytona :shock: in October...vc

[Maddog]

There are a lot of x-military on this board and you might be one. How many hours did you train for all sorts of possibilities that might or might not ever come your way. Riding is like that as well you are training every day that you ride. that you reacted to a unforeseen situation properly, without getting scared or worried is a sign of excellent training. I would venture to say that had those same deer been visible for several hundred yards, running back and forth accross the highway and that you had more time to think about it that you may have had a slightly different take of the whole situation.

[PSUbag]

You don't think about death when getting into the bathtub, right? People die in those too. I doubt you think about death when you go somewhere in the car....

You get my point. My bro-inlaw is fighting for life right now, Holmes had a bad fall, shftr just went down, but when I get on the bike it kind of cleanses my soul...

I also think that I learn something from all these mishaps. Bro in-law didn't take care of his health very well, Holmes showed me that I don't have to worry about deer JUST at night, and shftr is one of the best riders I've ever ridden with, but.....

You AVOIDED contact with your riding skills. Let's face it, we're all going to die (didn't mean to remind you of it, thanks George Carlin :) ) the only thing we can do is delay it as long as possible! If I'm goin' out, I'm doin' it doing something that I LOVE! Better that than choking on a sandwich or slipping in a tub!

Oh well, just my 2 cents.....

[Cattman]

Bill, you are the best rider I've ever been with. Take some time and reflect on what riding has done for you and the people you have met through riding. Now, GO FOR A RIDE. :wink:

[Highlander]

Lamont: I can jump off a 210' tower but I can't go very far back into my own cave, go figure.

You ain't right. I'll take the cave every time. :D I also understand that you don't like riding on the back seat of wings in Italy either. :lol:

[LaMonster]

Lamont: I can jump off a 210' tower but I can't go very far back into my own cave, go figure.

You ain't right. I'll take the cave every time. :D I also understand that you don't like riding on the back seat of wings in Italy either. :lol:

You got that right. :o4: :22yikes:

[BugEyedTurkey]

Highlander,

If you think about it... you are showing 'fear' - or maybe a better word, showing 'respect' because your though process caused you to post this message. It tells me, you are THINKING, and that, my friend, coupled with respect for the MC and the idiots in cages, will make you alert, safe and cautious!

I laid down a Cavalcade a few years back at 75 mph and man, did it hurt! Totaled the bike, broke several bones, etc. and I had the same EXACT thoughts... I am gonna hang it up! Well, I did for a while but finally got the urge and the first time on a scooter, I was petrified! All I could think of is what had happened to me... and all those friends that had done the same and some that are no longer with us.

I stayed with it and can honestly tell you, it has made me a safer, more cautious rider and helps me to enjoy the 'sport' of riding moreso now than ever before!

Hang in there... keep the respect for the scooter and its possible dangers and keep on riding!

I hope, someday, we can meet and ride together!

God Bless, my friend!

[Bob E.]

I've been debating whether I wanted to relay this story here or not since you first posted. I wan't going to, but after reading all that has been posted above, I decided to do it.

July 3, 2002 about 7:50am I am riding my Valk the 8 miles to work down a back road I have driven literally thousands of times. It was a beautiful, warm, sunny morning. The road is twisty and the pavement is so new that the shoulders haven't even been brought up to the new pavement. I am clipping along about 55 (posted speed limit is 35) but everyone travels that road like that, especially this section as it is rather straight. All of a sudden, from a new road to the left from a new housing development, a tri-axle dump truck does a rolling stop and pulls (very slowly) out in front of me. It took all I could to stop that big Valk before eating the back of that truck. I stopped maybe 5 feet short. I then raced up along side the driver's door and shouted that he is going to f'ing kill someone one day. He just shrugged his shoulders and I went on in front of him.

My brother lived next door to me and worked at the same place as me. He was running 10 or 15 minutes late, but like me, couldn't resist taking his bike (Suzuki RF600 sport bike) on that beautiful morning. Although he had the bike for about 6 years, he didn't ride very much. He was more into offroad ATV's. In fact there was just over 6000 miles on the bike, and this was only the 2nd time he had it out for the year. Well, going down the same road at the same intersection as me, the same thing happened to him. A tri-axle dump truck pulled out in front of him. Now, since he was running late and the fact that his bike could make better use of the fresh pavement, he was running quite a bit faster than me (85-90mph) and didn't get stopped. He tried to pass the truck on the right, but went down as his front tire dropped off of the edge of the new pavement and he was thrown under the wheels of the truck and crushed.

It was around 9:30 when I realized he hadn't arrived at the office. I called his house and cell phones with no answer. I called my then-fiance at home and she told me his car was still in the driveway. I called my mom (he lived with our parents) to see if he had gotten up or was sick or something, and she said no and was now worried. So I left work and headed towards home. I came upon the accident scene just in time to see them put his body in the coroner's van. I identified myself to the police and they told me what happened. About the same time, my sister-in-law (other brother's wife) arrived at the scene from the other direction and was freaking out. She had heard about the accident from a neighbor who had a police scanner and called her. She heard "Elliott" (my last name) and she automatically thought it was me because I rode to work almost every day. So the police allowed me to walk through the accident scene, past the mess on the road, to go to her.

That was the start of probably the worst day of my life. Out of respect for my family (mostly my mom), I didn't ride the bike for about a month until I got a sense from her that it would be ok. My fiance freaked out about it and we almost didn't get married because of it. But I just knew that bikes were in my blood and it was important to me to have motorcycling in my life. My parent's on the other hand have a Goldwing and trailer and were into motorcycle camping. They didn't ride again for over 3 years. In fact, it has only been a few weeks since they took their first ride again. But since then, have gone on a day ride nearly every weekend since. Heck, Dad has even gone without a helmet a couple times now. So it's nice to see them enjoying it again since they loved it so much before.

What's my point? Well, my point is that I thought real long and hard about riding after that day and came to some conclusions. We all know that motorcycling can be dangerous and we all have to rely on our skills and experience to keep us alive out there. I am convinced that it was my skills and experience that kept me from hitting that truck, where as it was my brother's lack of experience that prevented him from making a wise decision on his speed and his ability to get stopped. I also take into consideration my self discipline regarding alcohol (never when riding) and try to limit my speed to when I feel it is safe to go fast...as in a time and place for everything. Maybe your mind is telling you that same thing...that there is a time and place for everything. And you should rely on your skills and experience to help you make the right decisions and react to hazards and keep you alive. Maybe slow down a little (I did) and enjoy the ride more. It works for me.

[solo1]

Bill:

I forgot to mention this on the other board.

When I retired in 1991, two of my retiree friends said that I shouldn't ride MC's, they were too dangerous. Both of my friends died the same year, one from a heart attack and the other from the flu. I'm still here.

Daniel Meyer says we think that we are immortal. Nope, not for me any more. Taking care of my wife in her last days changed that thinking in a hurry. It even affected my riding. If you take care of someone close to you and about the same age you tend to think "This could be me"

However, I have learned to adjust. Yes, I'm more cautious now but my enjoyment in riding is still there.

You kinda hafta choose a balance. I try to ride more aware as we all do. However, I wouldn't think of standing up on the seat like Hollywood. I remember that Jesus said to the devil; "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" I just ask for His guidance and presence. You know that. That's why my Valks name is Emanuel.

You did good Bill. Don't try to analyze your responses. Your one heckuva good rider. Just ride.

Wayne

[Daniel Meyer]

Hi Wayne,

I probably should have worded it better. I don't think I'm immortal...Lord knows I've lost nearly everybody that was dear to me as a younger man...I am intimately familiar with Death...

Mortality though...I don't think that many, if any, believe when they set out to do something that they are actually going to die...at that moment...while they are doing that thing they set out to do. If they did, it would be surrender or suicide...I think we always believe we have SOME chance...

Relatives in WW2...some at Normandy...even said, "We just knew we were going to die...we could see it happening around us...but at the same time each of us just didn't believe it would be US..." Of course, only the living can relate the stories, perhaps the ones that didn't make it truely DID believe it would be them... I dunno.

I've lost so many that it's a complicated issue for me...but I must say...for the most part it hasn't been motorcycles that have been the cause.

I have no fear of death at all. Never have...but when I get on the bike, even though I know it's possible to get hurt or die...I don't beleive for a second that THAT day will be the day...and IF the day ever comes, the micorsecond before I go "splat" I still won't believe it...and will be riding the best I can knowing for a fact I'll survive...

I can identify with Highlander's incident...I've been there myself...piloting around obstacles that coulda/shoulda done me in, almost without a care, knowing I'd be fine...later is when the thinking comes...or the shakes...

So, I guess, when I die, I'll have a look of surprise on my face... :D

As with most things, it's a personal choice...and MANY factors come into it.

The most important, to me, is illustrated by this pic I took in NM...no matter what else is happening, no matter what else you've got on your mind...past, future, or present:

http://lifeisaroad.com/images/nmnavigation.jpg

Ride on!

[jwxspoon]

Bob thanks for posting that.

I hope they charged the truck driver.

jw

[Bob E.]

Bob thanks for posting that.

I hope they charged the truck driver.

jw

Actually, no they didn't. PA State Police Accident Reconstruction Specialist estimated my brother's speed at 85-90mph, which is why the truck driver may not have seen him prior to pulling out.

[Highlander]

Thanks Bob. Thanks for sharing something so personal. Let me begin by saying, it is difficult for me to deal with so much. Thank each one of you for yor thoughtful responses. Ray O, I did not mean to upset you as I apparently did. I know the decision is yours alone to make, and I know you will do what is right for you.

I just lost one of the best friends I ever had a little while ago. Everything was finally going her way, and one night in her sleep, alone in her home, she died. :( She pretty much kept me alive during that time when "The Highlander" was born, yet I was home when she died, unable to help her because I did not know. We had kept in touch, she called me every day, and some days come by for dinner after she got off of work. She is the one who suggested that I needed to find someone to ride on the back of "The Quickening," so I would not feel out-of-place with my riding buddies. Two have applied, one remains, but I am not sure how long she will last. Amanda is a great rider, so good in fact I sometimes forget she is there --- until I speed up or apply the brakes. :shock: However, she is not ready to ride with my friends and their family just yet as we are just friends, and she is very different from my friends.

I do not fear death -- I wonder sometimes if it would not be a blessing. I think that is what is bothering me more than anything. My life seems to have lost it's purpose. I only look forward to going to places like Maggie Valley and the Covered Bridge ride -- which is not a bad thing -- where I can be with my friends. I ride alone locally again, because I think it is best for those I used to ride with. They are all couples, and I felt/feel out of place. After finding three guys to ride with, riding alone sucks. We were having so much fun, their wives decided to go, as they should. It just put me in as the third wheel, so-to-speak. I guess I will just have to wait and see. Maybe I can write my way out of this one. Writing things seems to help me. Been working on a new article about why I chose the Valkyrie that may interest some.

[Bumblebee]

Bob, So sorry for your lost. July 3 is my birthday. Highlander if you quit riding it would be a boring place around those Inzanes!!!!! Its like Reelay said "we got to be ready" Me and the Good Lord fixed that up when I was a 13 yr old boy. I will always be thankful he saved me at a early age. I know I have let him down often, but he has never let me down. I agree with others that he will take us when he is good and ready.

[Daniel Meyer]

(snip) from Highlander
Maybe I can write my way out of this one. Writing things seems to help me.
(endsnip)

It works for me.........

[R J]

Bill, you will never give up riding.......

I laid in a hospital for 6 months and I still ride..... Both legs broke, both arms broke and had 3 cracked vertebra in my neck.

By the way, was the Truck Driver charged? If so, what was it....

[solo1]

Daniel. You're right, life goes on and so we must! I understand where you're coming from. I guess that my philosophy is the same when I think about it. The alternative is thinking too much and crawling into your hole that you have created. I have had a real time separating memories of my wife suffering from how I need to fill my life. On some days it's almost like I forgot how to smile. Please accept my apology, too busy thinking of myself.

Bill, I find that writing helps fill a void for me. I think that you're on the right track, keep your mind busy. Just as Daniel's writing and books keeps me writing, your exuberance and confidence keeps me riding (to say nothing of your and Mojo's guitar playing). So keep on writing, I'd sure like to read some of your stories.

Many of us here have experienced bad times. The trick is to keep on keeping on.

Wayne

[Daniel Meyer]

Hey Wayne,

Nothing to apologize for, in my book anyway...this here's a discussion...and a good one. These are issues we all struggle with, even if we are running where angels fear to tread.

It's a good thing to see how others view the world and the challenges in it.

[Crazy Al]

Groovy idea Bill. Existential crisis. Metaphysical distress.
I dig angst!

:o4:

[Cruisin Dave]

Bill,
Cheryl and I have enjoyed your friendship over the years since we first met and we always look forward to riding with you whenever we can, although we wish it could be more often. It doesn't matter to us at all if you are riding solo, you are always welcome to ride with us. That being said...we also hope and pray that the Good Lord will provide you with a partner, if that is His will for you.

We also firmly believe that we will not leave this earth before our time and when that time comes, it doesn't matter where we are or what we are doing (not that I would walk in front of a freight train to test that belief!).

Hang in there buddy! We can't picture you without a bike!!! Maybe you need to trade up to a V8?? JUST KIDDING! :wink: