Loud pipes, further thoughts, a little long.

[solo1]

I would like to thank everyone for their input on the loud pipes controversy. I would like to mention a few more things if I may.

I find it interesting that I'm seeing comments concerning my age since my picture is now posted. Believe me, age has nothing to do with it.
I'm presently driving a T100 supercharged truck with a Flowmaster muffler. Fortunately, the catalytic converter alows the sound to be pleasant but not LOUD. I like something more than Gold Wing quiet but less than HD obnoxious.

Many people equate obnoxious pipes with rights. Big difference! In my opinion, we have the Right to wear or not wear a helmet. However we do Not have the right to infringe on other people's Rights to quiet. Case in point. My wife was extremely sick for four years before she passed away. During that time, she was wakened from a restless sleep by a gentleman? who rode past our house every day riding a HD with straight pipes. As a councilman I offer to you that cops like to chase the bad guys, they don't want to enforce a vague ordinance which is almost enforceable here in our town.

Which brings me to the next point. There is only one Federal standard which is required, that I am aware of, and that is done at the manufacturing level only on samples of new bikes , USA EPA F76A Passby Noise Test. This is a test under laboratory conditions and can't be practically duplicated in the field. Besides, you wouldn't like it. It measures all noise from a motorcycle and is very strict.

The ordinance that I am planning would be based on a Daytona Beach (Unnecessary revving) and db rating (Massachusett's for example)) at a measured distance from the muffler(s). When a person is stopped for "revving", the db test would then be done. As a police sergeant from Daytona Beach told me "If you want to attract attention, we will give you attention"

I attended a sound conference last May, sponsored by the AMA. A member of the European motorcycle community told me that eventually we, the USA, will be held to the European standard, stock FACTORY mufflers. I don't know about that but I do know that we riders are a small minority, and the people that don't ride will eventually have their way and we will either ride quiet with no possibility of deviation from the "norm" or many communities will ban motorcycles, a problem AMA is constantly fighting against. I don't want that.

I sincerely hope that you can see my point.!

[TJ]

Solo 1

I must disagree with you. Its not your pic, It's your age. If you had a problem with a single biker waking your sick wife ( no disrespect meant )
why not go after that biker and not all bikers. You're talking one more
stupid law that will just give a cop another reason to pull someone over
because he didn't get laid last night. And don't tell me that That doesn't happen. I know and can prove better. Gee I think we should outlaw
your flow masters because there is a kid who has them on this truck and
they make my cows nervous and I don't like the sound of them. lol :)
There are enough laws on the books already,just enforce them....
and don't force your thoughts on me.
TJ

[Jeff K]

The way I see it is…
Every law that is even proposed brings us closer to no motorcycles at all. Regulation never stops. First it will be 80db at 100 feet, then it will be 50db at 50 feet, then stock pipes only, until they will just be banned all together. Did you ever see any laws relax over time? It does happen, but not very often. If you make a noose it will only get tighter and tighter. If my only choice for bikes were a Goldwing I’d buy a car and skip the whole biking thing. Regulation bring uniformity, I do not intend to march in step.
Ah, I can see it now…
A sea of white, electric, GoldWings, all wearing white riding suits, white helmets, white gloves, and white boots all in a line at the Dairy Queen.

You don't need a motorcycle muffler law, you need a common sense law. If you don't use common sense you'll get a fine! Can't they just issue "disturbing the peace" tickets?

I agree that reving a bike with straight pipes is too loud and anoying, but I'm not willing to give up more of my freedoms to solve this.

I spend a lot of time in Daytona. Do you think that the new pipe ordnances have quieted the bikes there? Nope, they just hand out lots of tickets.

[Fla.Mike]

But I guess the thing that bothers me would be enforcement of the "noise ordinance". Give some guys a badge... well you know the rest. Having had a few Harley's with loud pipes, I never had any complaints from neighbors about the noise. I tried to keep it reasonably quiet in mine or any other neighborhood I was passing thru. I currently choose to ride a quiet bike, by my own choice. I'd still have a problem supporting a noise ordinance and if given the choice, probably vote against it.

[laborman]

I work in a PetroChemical complex. Yes, it is loud. OSHA requires us to mitigate the damage to our hearing when we are exposed to noise above a certain limit. They do not require us to fire an employee because they aren't wearing earplugs. Noise in a industrial complex is something you have to work with and is a fact of life.

I had my stock pipes on the Valk modified by horseapple because I wanted "some" noise, but not so loud that they are straight pipe sound. Yes, I wear earplugs when I riding for two reasons - the wind popping in my ears and the pipes (age does that to ya'). No, they aren't too loud, just loud enough for me. I do not run the trombones because they are too loud....and, when I leave my neighborhood, I ease out and do not disturbe my neighbors. Personnally, I HATE STRAIGHT PIPES. But, I will support a person's rights to run them. I just get in front of them and "mitigate" the noise.

The discussion on limiting noise from pipes/motorcycles is purely political. You have to do something for the people who elected you. Lets be honest....if those who elected you all supported a person's rights to make choices about pipes, you wouldn't be writing an ordinance to eliminate noise, or try to define "unnessary revving". What is un-necessary?

Laws/ordinances should be written to protect, not limit. The opposite side of this discussion is to require everyone to wear hearing protection when they go outside of their house. That will ensure their RIGHT TO QUIET. Then TJ would have to put hearing protection on his cows so they won't get nervous! HA!

Good luck Solo1. You have a difficult position to defend - legislate away people's rights to make a decision and run pipes that emit noise.

[MAD6Gun]

Driving and riding a motorcycle are not RIGHTS. There are a PRIVILAGE giving to us by our respected states. They make the laws, we abide by them no mater how stupid they may be, If you dont you get a ticket. If you dont like the way your town or state is being run. You can change it , its called VOTING.

[Redux]

Is QUIET a right? Can't remember that one in the Constitution. There is no RIGHT not to be offended. If you live in a society, you have to deal with things that offend you occasionally. I work nights sometimes. When my neighbor wakes me up at 10am with his lawnmower, can I have him arrested? It woke me up the same as Solo1's wife...Puleeze.

This argument is pretty amazing. Thing is, it will always be something. Appeasment doesn't work. Think we would have figured that out by now. If the loud pipe issue is won by the complainers, it'll be HP limits (no motorcycle needs over 100), or mandatory "air-bag" suits or any number of things, for my own good of course.

The AMA sponsored a "noise conference"? Hmmm. My membership (due in Jan) is looking less and less likely. I'm fed up. Maybe I can find another group to support with my money.

I have accepted the FACT that there will always be people willing to take away my freedom. It has been confirmed again.

[laborman]

Driving and riding a motorcycle are not RIGHTS. There are a PRIVILAGE giving to us by our respected states.

Uh-oh....

Yes, it is my RIGHT! Ya' see....I bought and paid for it. I paid the tax when I purchased the Valk, paid for my license, pay my taxes to my "respected state". If I pay for it....it is my right.

Priviledge - it would be a priviledge to ride with you and SOLO1 because you ALLOW me to ride with you. I can earn a priviledge, or I can exercise a right....or I can apply my "God given right".

Serving a community is a priviledge earned by election. Yes, I often choose to exercise my right to vote and cast my vote against issues that I disagree with. Sometimes, I'm on the winning side (the majority).

When we meet in the future, I'll respect your right and ride behind you. Ride safe and keep the shiny side up. :lol:

[solo1]

I will ride with you anytime, Laborman. I do like a nice sounding bike. I ride one.

I do disagree with you on a "right' vs a privilege.

Let me mention one incident. A few years ago, a clown was firing his 30-06 rifle into the woods. The woods was being used for off road vehicles. The entire area was in the city limits.There was no ordinance prohibiting this highly dangerous practice at the time.

I introduced and passed an ordinance with Public Input, AS REQUIRED BY LAW to prohibit the use of firearms within the city limits, except for the purpose of self defense or permitted target practice.

At the public hearing members of the NRA appeared and protested. I pointed out to them that I was a Life member of the NRA, I regularly taught firearm safety, and that had I fought for the 2nd Amendment all my life. However, when I asked them if they thought it was a good idea to shoot a firearm within the city in a highly concentrated homes area, with no backstop, they agrred especially when I pointed out that the ordinance specifically stated that you could use a firearm in self defense or in defense of your property as defined by Indiana's constitution. In addition, under the provision's a target area could be set up upon the Chief of Pollce's approval for safety. In addition, if a target area was disapproved by the Chief, the party could appeal to the Board of Works, a civilian entity, without any fees. The ordinance passed with no further objections.

The morale of this story is that there are many poorly written ordinances that cause more problems than they solve. I will be using a "rifle" apprach , not a shotgun approach, to get the straight pipes off the road.
If you vision of noise is NO sound restrictions because of your "rights" I'm indeed sorry.

[Bonesaw]

Oh, let's see....a 30.06 bullet to side of a kid's head vs. missing the punchline of a Barney Fife joke on a re-run of an Andy Griffith show because a loud bike road by your house on the way out of town...


.....the stakes are just a bit skewed....

[Maddog]

I have several motorcycles of different varieties. Some are louder than others by design. I have often heard people, with the best of intentions propose solutions that do not affect the way that they conduct their business, but does impact others in the pursuit of their lives. One of the bikes that I ride the most is a Valkyrie with straight pipes. I can pretty much control the amount of noise I put out by controlling my right hand. Enforce the laws you got, not much need to keep making new ones, when you are not enforcing the ones you got

[EVIL BOB]

JUST WHO DESIDES WHAT SOUNDS GOOD?? SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU NEED TO GET A PET SO YOU WILL HAVE SOMEONE TO BOSS AROUND.

EVIL BOB



I will ride with you anytime, Laborman. I do like a nice sounding bike. I ride one.

I do disagree with you on a "right' vs a privilege.

Let me mention one incident. A few years ago, a clown was firing his 30-06 rifle into the woods. The woods was being used for off road vehicles. The entire area was in the city limits.There was no ordinance prohibiting this highly dangerous practice at the time.

I introduced and passed an ordinance with Public Input, AS REQUIRED BY LAW to prohibit the use of firearms within the city limits, except for the purpose of self defense or permitted target practice.

At the public hearing members of the NRA appeared and protested. I pointed out to them that I was a Life member of the NRA, I regularly taught firearm safety, and that had I fought for the 2nd Amendment all my life. However, when I asked them if they thought it was a good idea to shoot a firearm within the city in a highly concentrated homes area, with no backstop, they agrred especially when I pointed out that the ordinance specifically stated that you could use a firearm in self defense or in defense of your property as defined by Indiana's constitution. In addition, under the provision's a target area could be set up upon the Chief of Pollce's approval for safety. In addition, if a target area was disapproved by the Chief, the party could appeal to the Board of Works, a civilian entity, without any fees. The ordinance passed with no further objections.

The morale of this story is that there are many poorly written ordinances that cause more problems than they solve. I will be using a "rifle" apprach , not a shotgun approach, to get the straight pipes off the road.
If you vision of noise is NO sound restrictions because of your "rights" I'm indeed sorry.

[sarge]

Why the Sam Hill are the Europeans trying to tell us how loud our mc's should be. Your right, if they can hear my mc in France from the USA it is too loud. If they can't hear it then they need to BUZZ OFF. Is this the USA or some cheese eatin, wine drinkin third world social nightmare. I'm not part of the European Union and don't want to be, let's hope our elected officials keep us out of the One World Government BS. As long as I'm alive, I will fight it and hope that my children do to. :x



A member of the European motorcycle community told me that eventually we, the USA, will be held to the European standard, stock FACTORY mufflers. I don't know about that but I do know that we riders are a small minority, and the people that don't ride will eventually have their way and we will either ride quiet with no possibility of deviation from the "norm" or many communities will ban motorcycles, a problem AMA is constantly fighting against. I don't want that.


http://www.zwpatch.com/images/miscellaneous/loud_pipes_save_lives.jpg

"Do they Save Lives"? Don't know but Responsibility and Respect for others is the "key", I believe.



http://www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/images/forum/avatar/105.gif sarge

All Ride Safe

[V-MAN]

The ordinance that I am planning would be based on a Daytona Beach (Unnecessary revving) and db rating (Massachusett's for example)) at a measured distance from the muffler(s).

Newyburyport, MA is the town that started all this mess in my backyard. I would like to know how much you know about their "noise ordinance". Do you realize that the db numbers change dependant on number of cylinders? It will be much easier for a V-Twin configured motorcyycle to "pass" the db test then the Flat 6 or a V8. I was told my Valk is measured at 3500RPM :( I am not running at 3500 RPM cruising up/down RT 1A! I would not want to even imagine what they would test the Boss at ... 4000 or more :!: It is a stupid law written by a small group of prudish people.

I am not in anybody's neighborhood revving my engine or doing burnouts ... I am on a beachside road in a 95% business district. I am not looking for trouble just cruising the ocean and trying to enjoy the views like everyone else except I choose to do it on two wheels and not four.

Here is a situation for you to consider - I was eating in Newburyport at a very nice seafood restaurant with my wife and another couple. After dinner and the check was paid the ladies went to use the restroom and my buddy and I went outside to wait. I walked out the front door and there was Newburyports "finest" walking circles around my Boss. I stood in the distance and watched. Within two or three minutes another squad car arrived. Now there were three officers "checking out" my ride. I walked over to them and they asked if the bike belonged to me ... I answered "yes". I was then asked to inspect my helmet! WHAT :!: The bike is PARKED not even key in the ignition and I am not mounted on the bike ... I handed them my helmet and told them it was in fact DOT approved. My point is ... they did not know where to look at my helmet to see if it was DOT - I pointed out the tag on inside! If they can't find a DOT tag/sticker I doubt they would be prficient at using a db meter either. The bike had no plate on it, it was brand new (temp plate is HUGE paper plate that does not fit license frame so the paper plate was in glovebox). They wanted to hear the pipes but I did not start it until after they left ... I was still trying to enjoy my night. These clowns never asked for registration ... the bike could have been stolen but they were more concerned about the helmet issue then anything REAL such as a stolen vehicle!

BTW for your information solo - check with Newburyport, MA, Portsmouth, NH, Wells, ME, Old Orchid Beach, ME and York, ME and see how many cases have withstood the court process. Be sure to get the number of guys/gals that have been in court, not the ones that just pay the fine because it is easier route to travel! I can say that UBM (United Bikers of Maine) and other true motorcyclists groups are doing a fine job at providing help to its members to fight against harassment.

I also want to point out that I am NOT critizing the police officers ... they are doing their jobs. Many of them share my opinions on this matter. The ones that don't - most don't ride themselves.